Thiessen, Santorum, And Orwell – The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan – The Daily Beast

Thiessen, Santorum, And Orwell – The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan – The Daily Beast.

It was scary to read how these 1984 quotes stack up agains defenders of “enhanced interrogation”.  It scary how many people believe in this, i. e. torture.  I think all in all its that conservative  can’t come to terms with what a train wreak the Bush years were.

The argument that enhanced interrogation “works” is beside the point.  Even if those under have in fact provided useful information doesn’t convince me it was the only way.  Further more even if it “works” I think it’s wrong.  Period.

Is that best illstrated by the fact that in our finest hours which might have winning the Second World War, we didn’t stoop to tactics used the Nazis or the Soviets during the Cold War.

I think you can do well by doing right.  If you think that’s naive, so be it.   I may not convince anyone, but I’ve stated what I believe.

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Paul Krugman: Shadow of the Torturers

 

On the psychology of the George W. Bush administration. I believe he is correct:

Paul Krugman: Shadow of the Torturers: After reading John Yoo’s attack on the president for not taking Osama alive and bringing him to Gitmo, I thought I might take a minute to explain something I sometimes say. Once in a while I mention, in passing, that the Bush administration saw torturing people as a plus, not a cost. And whenever I do, some readers clutch their breasts and reach for the smelling salts: how dare I say such a thing? But it’s true — not because they’re sadists, but because it suited their self-image.

From day one of the War on Terror (TM), it was clear that the Bush people reveled in the notion that they were tough guys, willing to Do What Needs to be Done. They were all wannabe Kiefer Sutherlands. Far from showing qualms about suspending the rule of law and using torture to extract information, they obviously enjoyed the idea that they were willing to go all the way, unlike those wimpy liberals. Of course, they never admitted that, probably not even to themselves. But did you ever see the slightest hint of reluctance or discomfort? Or did you see tremendous self-satisfaction as the acts became ever more abusive?

And so they are, inevitably, deeply upset that someone who isn’t a tough guy by their standards seems to be doing a better job of getting the terrorists than they did.

Paul Krugman: Shadow of the Torturers
J. Bradford DeLong
Sat, 07 May 2011 17:11:58 GMT

Guest Post: Everything You Need to Know About Torture

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Guest Post: Everything You Need to Know About Torture
George Washington
Sun, 06 Mar 2011 06:24:36 GMT

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 Washington’s Blog

Here is a succinct executive summary of everything you know about torture:

Yes, Waterboarding IS Torture

• President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, Malcolm Nance (an advisor on terrorism to the US departments of Homeland Security, Special Operations and Intelligence), Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples (the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency) and many other interrogation experts and high-level politicians say that waterboarding is torture

• The United States has always considered waterboarding to be a crime of torture, including when the Japanese did it in WWII (and see this)

• Waterboarding is torture, Downing Street confirms

• Everyone claiming waterboarding is not torture has changed their tune as soon as they were exposed to even a small dose of it themselves. See this, this and this

No, Torture Does NOT Make Us Safer

• Head of the CIA’s National Clandestine Service: No Loss of Intelligence Since We Stopped Waterboarding

• General Petraeus: Torture is Unnecessary, Hurts Our National Security and Violates Our American Values

• Former British intelligence chairman all but calls Bush liar, says waterboarding didn’t stop terror plots

• Homeland Security Chief: We Were Wrong to Torture

• Top Interrogation Experts Agree: Torture Doesn’t Work

• Its Official: Torture Doesn’t Work

• Torture REDUCES National Security

• One of the Military’s Top Interrogators Says Torture Cost Hundreds ‘If Not Thousands’ Of American Lives

• Why We’re Losing the War on Terror

• Nice Work Creating New Terrorists, You Morons

The Insanity of What Actually Happened

• Senator: Government Used Communist Torture Techniques Aimed at Extracting FALSE Confessions

• Most of Those Tortured Were Innocent

• Humanitarian Aid Worker: Torture Only Stopped When I Pretended I Was In Al Qaeda

• Under torture, Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi claimed there was a link between Saddam Hussein, al-Qaida and WMD

• One of the Main Sources for the 9/11 Commission Report was Tortured Until He Agreed to Sign a Confession that He Was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO READ

• 9/11 Mastermind: “During … My Interrogation I Gave A Lot Of False Information In Order To Satisfy What I Believed The Interrogators Wished To Hear”

• Self-Confessed 9/11 “Mastermind” Also Falsely Confessed to Crimes He Didn’t Commit

• Most of the 9/11 Commission Report was Based on 3rd Hand Reports of What People Said While Being Tortured

• The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – recently said: “The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened“

Other Relevant Facts

• Americans Supported Torture Because They Were Deceived into Thinking that it was a Necessary Evil

• Torture is a Form of Terrorism

• Torture is Bad for the Economy

• Torture Is Not a Partisan Issue . . . George Washington – Who Was Neither a Democrat or Republican – Forbid All Torture

• Former Navy Judge Advocate General Admiral John Hutson said that “Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough”

Should We Prosecute?

• Former Guantanamo Prosecutor: Prosecute Those Who Authorized Torture

• Expert: Prosecuting Those Who Created Torture Program Will Reduce Attacks Against the U.S. and Against American Troops

• Bush: “Damn right” I authorized waterboarding

• Bush says waterboarding is legal “because the lawyer said it was legal”, even though the head of the 9/11 Commission – Thomas Keane – said they got legal opinions they wanted from their own people.

• Cheney Admits to Being War Criminal

• Law School Professor: Republicans Are Blackmailing Obama on Torture

• Torture Is Continuing Under the Obama Administration, Creating More Terrorists and Further Destabilizing the Economy